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1 Ticket Available - Tour de Fuzz
Hello FFBC Members,
Dave Harcos has one 35mi ticket to sell to the first person to respond to this email (please respond directly to me as to not inundate the club with replies). The cost is the original ticket price of $79 (payable to Dave) plus $15 to transfer plus $10 if you want to do the metric/$20 if you want the full century (payable at registration). There are one or two people looking for a roommate and an offer to carpool (same day up and back) if you're interested or of course you can get your own hotel room.
We have a HUGE group from FFBC this year, 54 at the last count!
Lori Sommer
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The route/coffee stop for Aug 16th MMRR will be to Panera at 1st Street. Please see the rdewithgps route in the ride calendar listing.
See you in the morning,
Mike and Louis
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
Thank you all for your concerns and comments. Just to reiterate, in the short term at least, please be careful at the intersection of Paseo Padre and Walnut.
Yes, I’ve noticed the traffic volume on Walnut is pretty light. It’s less of a speedway than it used to be. Slowing traffic may be an explicit goal, but what about discouraging traffic? I live east of Mission between Mowry and Walnut, and now avoid driving on Walnut due to the new bike lanes and particularly the bulb-outs at the intersections. It’s really an unpleasant drive.
I also avoid Walnut as a cyclist. The eastbound lanes have dappled light from the trees, the lane goes from raised/along the sidewalk, to finding the way through the intersection, and back to the next shade-hidden path. The westbound lane is easily confused between bike lane and sidewalk, and figuring out where to be isn’t worth it.
I hope that the City is continuing to study the impacts and input from the Walnut construction before expanding this type of bicycle access elsewhere in Fremont. It would be tremendously expensive (and frustrating!) to realize later that some elements of this construction do not work well here.
On a related note, from what I can tell, the green paint used here and elsewhere, while helpful visually, is also acrylic, which is a type of plastic, As that plastic degrades, it will contribute more micro plastics to the stormwater system. Does the City of Fremont have storm drain inlet treatment in all areas where these lanes will be releasing pollutants? Are the City of Fremont’s stormwater staff aware of this and working on minimizing the release of these pollutants? Who should we contact about this?
On Aug 13, 2021, at 12:08 PM, mdavis94536 < mark@...> wrote:
It should be noted (as perhaps some are implying) that slowing down traffic is an explicit goal. On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:29 AM Marie Hughes < macmadame@...> wrote: The NextDoor complaints? They make people slow down. Apparently, they don’t like that. :D
There are also comments as to how the streets are going to be kept clean now as noted here.
I’m not a fan of them, myself, but for other reasons. They make it harder to see cyclists in the bike lane when I’m driving and also I feel trapped when I’m riding there.
Marie
The complaints about the bollards are so absurd. Do they ruin the view of the lovely asphalt? Vinnie Bacon p: 510-796-8870 The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly! Marie
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know. As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it. Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.) Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred. How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining? On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress. Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways. Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections. Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic. In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other. Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points. My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs. I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose. The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians. Faster than that, we should use the roadway. Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop. The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse. There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote: You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
I think discouraging traffic is maybe a secondary goal; the whole point is to make it safer for cyclists and pedestrians, so reducing volume is probably also important for that purpose.
I'm not defending the idea, just pointing this out.
Slowing traffic may be an explicit goal, but what about discouraging traffic? I live east of Mission between Mowry and Walnut, and now avoid driving on Walnut due to the new bike lanes and particularly the bulb-outs at the intersections. It’s really an unpleasant drive.
I also avoid Walnut as a cyclist. The eastbound lanes have dappled light from the trees, the lane goes from raised/along the sidewalk, to finding the way through the intersection, and back to the next shade-hidden path. The westbound lane is easily confused between bike lane and sidewalk, and figuring out where to be isn’t worth it.
I hope that the City is continuing to study the impacts and input from the Walnut construction before expanding this type of bicycle access elsewhere in Fremont. It would be tremendously expensive (and frustrating!) to realize later that some elements of this construction do not work well here.
On a related note, from what I can tell, the green paint used here and elsewhere, while helpful visually, is also acrylic, which is a type of plastic, As that plastic degrades, it will contribute more micro plastics to the stormwater system. Does the City of Fremont have storm drain inlet treatment in all areas where these lanes will be releasing pollutants? Are the City of Fremont’s stormwater staff aware of this and working on minimizing the release of these pollutants? Who should we contact about this?
Gayle Tupper On Aug 13, 2021, at 12:08 PM, mdavis94536 < mark@...> wrote:
It should be noted (as perhaps some are implying) that slowing down traffic is an explicit goal. On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:29 AM Marie Hughes < macmadame@...> wrote: The NextDoor complaints? They make people slow down. Apparently, they don’t like that. :D
There are also comments as to how the streets are going to be kept clean now as noted here.
I’m not a fan of them, myself, but for other reasons. They make it harder to see cyclists in the bike lane when I’m driving and also I feel trapped when I’m riding there.
Marie
The complaints about the bollards are so absurd. Do they ruin the view of the lovely asphalt? Vinnie Bacon p: 510-796-8870 The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly! Marie
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know. As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it. Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.) Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred. How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining? On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress. Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways. Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections. Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic. In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other. Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points. My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs. I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose. The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians. Faster than that, we should use the roadway. Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop. The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse. There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote: You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
Yes, I’ve noticed the traffic volume on Walnut is pretty light. It’s less of a speedway than it used to be.
Slowing traffic may be an explicit goal, but what about discouraging traffic? I live east of Mission between Mowry and Walnut, and now avoid driving on Walnut due to the new bike lanes and particularly the bulb-outs at the intersections. It’s really an unpleasant drive.
I also avoid Walnut as a cyclist. The eastbound lanes have dappled light from the trees, the lane goes from raised/along the sidewalk, to finding the way through the intersection, and back to the next shade-hidden path. The westbound lane is easily confused between bike lane and sidewalk, and figuring out where to be isn’t worth it.
I hope that the City is continuing to study the impacts and input from the Walnut construction before expanding this type of bicycle access elsewhere in Fremont. It would be tremendously expensive (and frustrating!) to realize later that some elements of this construction do not work well here.
On a related note, from what I can tell, the green paint used here and elsewhere, while helpful visually, is also acrylic, which is a type of plastic, As that plastic degrades, it will contribute more micro plastics to the stormwater system. Does the City of Fremont have storm drain inlet treatment in all areas where these lanes will be releasing pollutants? Are the City of Fremont’s stormwater staff aware of this and working on minimizing the release of these pollutants? Who should we contact about this?
On Aug 13, 2021, at 12:08 PM, mdavis94536 < mark@...> wrote:
It should be noted (as perhaps some are implying) that slowing down traffic is an explicit goal. On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:29 AM Marie Hughes < macmadame@...> wrote: The NextDoor complaints? They make people slow down. Apparently, they don’t like that. :D
There are also comments as to how the streets are going to be kept clean now as noted here.
I’m not a fan of them, myself, but for other reasons. They make it harder to see cyclists in the bike lane when I’m driving and also I feel trapped when I’m riding there.
Marie
The complaints about the bollards are so absurd. Do they ruin the view of the lovely asphalt? Vinnie Bacon p: 510-796-8870 The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly! Marie
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know. As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it. Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.) Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred. How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining? On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress. Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways. Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections. Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic. In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other. Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points. My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs. I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose. The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians. Faster than that, we should use the roadway. Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop. The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse. There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote: You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
Gayle Tupper <gayletupper@...>
Slowing traffic may be an explicit goal, but what about discouraging traffic? I live east of Mission between Mowry and Walnut, and now avoid driving on Walnut due to the new bike lanes and particularly the bulb-outs at the intersections. It’s really an unpleasant drive.
I also avoid Walnut as a cyclist. The eastbound lanes have dappled light from the trees, the lane goes from raised/along the sidewalk, to finding the way through the intersection, and back to the next shade-hidden path. The westbound lane is easily confused between bike lane and sidewalk, and figuring out where to be isn’t worth it.
I hope that the City is continuing to study the impacts and input from the Walnut construction before expanding this type of bicycle access elsewhere in Fremont. It would be tremendously expensive (and frustrating!) to realize later that some elements of this construction do not work well here.
On a related note, from what I can tell, the green paint used here and elsewhere, while helpful visually, is also acrylic, which is a type of plastic, As that plastic degrades, it will contribute more micro plastics to the stormwater system. Does the City of Fremont have storm drain inlet treatment in all areas where these lanes will be releasing pollutants? Are the City of Fremont’s stormwater staff aware of this and working on minimizing the release of these pollutants? Who should we contact about this?
On Aug 13, 2021, at 12:08 PM, mdavis94536 < mark@...> wrote:
It should be noted (as perhaps some are implying) that slowing down traffic is an explicit goal. On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:29 AM Marie Hughes < macmadame@...> wrote: The NextDoor complaints? They make people slow down. Apparently, they don’t like that. :D
There are also comments as to how the streets are going to be kept clean now as noted here.
I’m not a fan of them, myself, but for other reasons. They make it harder to see cyclists in the bike lane when I’m driving and also I feel trapped when I’m riding there.
Marie
The complaints about the bollards are so absurd. Do they ruin the view of the lovely asphalt? Vinnie Bacon p: 510-796-8870 The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly! Marie
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know. As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it. Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.) Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred. How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining? On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress. Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways. Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections. Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic. In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other. Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points. My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs. I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose. The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians. Faster than that, we should use the roadway. Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop. The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse. There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote: You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
It should be noted (as perhaps some are implying) that slowing down traffic is an explicit goal.
On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:29 AM Marie Hughes < macmadame@...> wrote: The NextDoor complaints? They make people slow down. Apparently, they don’t like that. :D
There are also comments as to how the streets are going to be kept clean now as noted here.
I’m not a fan of them, myself, but for other reasons. They make it harder to see cyclists in the bike lane when I’m driving and also I feel trapped when I’m riding there.
Marie
The complaints about the bollards are so absurd. Do they ruin the view of the lovely asphalt? Vinnie Bacon p: 510-796-8870 The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly! Marie
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know. As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it. Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.) Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred. How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining? On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress. Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways. Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections. Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic. In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other. Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points. My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs. I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose. The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians. Faster than that, we should use the roadway. Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop. The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse. There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote: You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
The NextDoor complaints? They make people slow down. Apparently, they don’t like that. :D
There are also comments as to how the streets are going to be kept clean now as noted here.
I’m not a fan of them, myself, but for other reasons. They make it harder to see cyclists in the bike lane when I’m driving and also I feel trapped when I’m riding there.
The complaints about the bollards are so absurd. Do they ruin the view of the lovely asphalt? Vinnie Bacon p: 510-796-8870 The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly! Marie
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know. As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it. Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.) Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred. How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining? On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress. Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways. Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections. Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic. In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other. Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points. My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs. I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose. The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians. Faster than that, we should use the roadway. Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop. The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse. There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote: You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
Motorists hate anything that they perceive as slowing them down. If they're happy, we're probably doing something wrong.
“Motorists on Nextdoor” are not our target audience. They don’t like anything ;) On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 9:15 AM Marie Hughes < macmadame@...> wrote: The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly!
Marie On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote:
The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know.
As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it.
Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.)
Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred.
How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress.
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.
Respectfully, Daniel
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell < vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road. Greg Vicksell On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight
While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined
Andy Sass
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:
You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon e: vbacon@... p: 510-796-8870 � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
The complaints about the bollards are so absurd. Do they ruin the view of the lovely asphalt?
From: Marie Hughes <macmadame@...> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2021 9:16 AM To: Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> Cc: Michael Graff <michael.graff@...>; Andrew Sass <andrew.sass@...>; FFBC IO List <info@ffbc.groups.io>; Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...>; Tim OHara <timorides2@...>; Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...>; hlarsen@... Subject: Re: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly! Marie
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know. As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it. Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.) Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred. How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining? On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress. Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways. Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections. Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic. In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other. Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points. My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs. I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose. The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians. Faster than that, we should use the roadway. Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop. The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse. There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote: You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon e: vbacon@... p: 510-796-8870 � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
As a cyclist, I am not impressed with them as it seems there is more debris in the bike lanes, and the spacing is close enough that avoiding the debris requires a sharp turn into the car lane. It seems that the street sweeper cant do ad good of a job with the bollards.
As a driver, it isn't the green bollards that upset me, it is the reduced width of lanes and the concrete islands that bottle up traffic that is a pain. The solution is to avoid shopping and eating in central Fremont.
Andy
On Friday, August 13, 2021, 09:15:34 AM PDT, Marie Hughes <macmadame@...> wrote:
The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly!
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote:
The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know.
As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it.
Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.)
Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred.
How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress.
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.
Respectfully, Daniel
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell < vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road. Greg Vicksell On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight
While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined
Andy Sass
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:
You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon e: vbacon@... p: 510-796-8870 � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
“Motorists on Nextdoor” are not our target audience. They don’t like anything ;)
On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 9:15 AM Marie Hughes < macmadame@...> wrote: The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly!
Marie On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote:
The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know.
As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it.
Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.)
Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred.
How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress.
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.
Respectfully, Daniel
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell < vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road. Greg Vicksell On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight
While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined
Andy Sass
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:
You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon e: vbacon@... p: 510-796-8870 � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
The green bollards aren’t popular with the motorist who post on NextDoor. They bitch about them constantly!
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote:
The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know.
As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it.
Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.)
Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred.
How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress.
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.
Respectfully, Daniel
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell < vicksell@...> wrote: I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road. Greg Vicksell On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote: Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight
While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined
Andy Sass
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:
You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green. � Vinnie Bacon e: vbacon@... p: 510-796-8870 � � Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�
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Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
Reminder, this thread started again because someone mentioned seeing near collision incidences on walnut in multiple occasions. If this project was so good, why are we hearing about this again? Reminder, Joe Shami got hit and died as a result of bad design. I suppose there was no conflict with MUTCD or CVD him getting hit and die.
After any research or a project there are data surveillance gathering. Meaning our feedbacks. Which it seems some people like to ignore in the name of research and MUTCD guidelines. Initially “ sharrows” seemed to be a good divider solution. But now defending to have more sharrows just shows how some people are far off from reality. We are not riding bicycle in library.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 13, 2021, at 3:09 AM, Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know.
As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it.
Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that. We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.)
Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred.
How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress.
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.
Respectfully, Daniel
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell < vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont
made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to
take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to
remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of
this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards
Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars
coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking
for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I
have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and
front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a
car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where
they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a
car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there
is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the
light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the
sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again
when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go
straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are
seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to
safely go straight
While I am venting, those
islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also
an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones
travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain
broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium
on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback
are examined
Andy Sass
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie
Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:
You
should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW.
Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not
perfect. I was just commenting last night that I
don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on
Walnut.
�
Another
big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for
bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial
design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and
the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration
at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those
right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of
vehicles, not even realizing they are not for
vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they
paint them bright green.
�
Vinnie
Bacon
e: vbacon@...
p:
510-796-8870
�
�
Please be careful
when crossing Walnut after going up the green
bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions
now I have almost seen bike riders get hit
when they have the green light and they
advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide
corner.� I don't really blame the cars,
because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner
juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody
getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the
cars coming around the corner.�
|
|
|
Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
The green bollards are popular with everyone as far as I know.
As for a solution for avid cyclists on Walnut - it already exists: ride in the car lane like we do on every other road without a shoulder. I say this somewhat facetiously, but I've actually had people ride with me on the road while I'm on the path while we held a conversation. I can't say I recommend it.
Just like an otherwise safe highway isn't safe for a car going 150mph, the sharper turns on Walnut are designed for speeds slower than we might do otherwise. I think more can be done to slow cars down as they turn, either with signage or some traffic engineering magic like rumble strips or narrower lanes or something like that.
We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.)
Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred.
How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress.
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.
Respectfully, Daniel
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell < vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont
made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to
take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to
remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of
this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards
Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars
coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking
for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I
have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and
front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a
car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where
they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a
car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there
is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the
light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the
sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again
when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go
straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are
seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to
safely go straight
While I am venting, those
islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also
an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones
travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain
broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium
on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback
are examined
Andy Sass
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie
Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:
You
should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW.
Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not
perfect. I was just commenting last night that I
don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on
Walnut.
�
Another
big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for
bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial
design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and
the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration
at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those
right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of
vehicles, not even realizing they are not for
vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they
paint them bright green.
�
Vinnie
Bacon
e: vbacon@...
p:
510-796-8870
�
�
Please be careful
when crossing Walnut after going up the green
bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions
now I have almost seen bike riders get hit
when they have the green light and they
advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide
corner.� I don't really blame the cars,
because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner
juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody
getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the
cars coming around the corner.�
|
|
|
Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
Like many others I do not ride on Walnut any more, I tried a couple of times but gave up after having to stop and disembark multiple times for people walking in the wrong direction with headphones on. And I am in the T->M range and hence slower than many of the folks here.
The other day I read that there is a million dollar project on the table to change the intersection of Driscoll/Osgood and Washington in the same model as Walnut to make it easier for bikers and pedestrian before the new Bart station opens.
What kind of research/data is used to design these kind of roads I wonder - especially when it is given that walkers can never be educated to avoid those raised bike lanes.
Shantanu Sen
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 11:10:09 PM PDT, Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:
The bike lane could be come a right-turn-only (except bikes) lane at the intersections. That solves the radius problem.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 10:56 PM Andreas Kadavanich < andreas@...> wrote: A class II bike lane would negate the speed-reduction benefit of the wide corners at the intersections. Turning cars crossing the bike lane effectively have a vastly increased turning radius, allowing higher speed turns. The current offset bike path really only works when turning cars are slow enough that both drivers and cyclists can react to avoid a collision. The offset helps with visibility and reaction time, but only up to some design speed.
The sharrows are viable and I don’t see any conflicts with MUTCD or CVC either.
-Andreas
Is there a way to fix Walnut so that it works for all cyclists? Without changing the new sidepath, I can think of two (cheap paint) fixes:
* Add sharrows to the #2 lane * Convert the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane
Which fix would we prefer?
Ken et al., For the many reasons alluded to by others in this thread, I never ride on Walnut, and will never ride on Walnut, even though I live at the corner of Walnut and Civic Center Drive. There are plenty of other alternatives to getting wherever
I need to go. Nick Sent from
Mail for Windows
My solution is the best yet! I now completely avoid riding on Walnut. Mission accomplished…
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote:
Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes
everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric,
this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise
I do not see the purpose.
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with
motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's
crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if
you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via
groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that
apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns.
�It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight
While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill
and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon
<vbacon@...> wrote:
You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes
go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had
to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright
green. � Vinnie Bacon e:
vbacon@... p:
510-796-8870 �
�
Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the
green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the
cars coming around the corner.�
<46BDBFF14B02483DA89720EB924B651C.png>
|
|
|
Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
The bike lane could be come a right-turn-only (except bikes) lane at the intersections. That solves the radius problem.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 10:56 PM Andreas Kadavanich < andreas@...> wrote: A class II bike lane would negate the speed-reduction benefit of the wide corners at the intersections. Turning cars crossing the bike lane effectively have a vastly increased turning radius, allowing higher speed turns. The current offset bike path really only works when turning cars are slow enough that both drivers and cyclists can react to avoid a collision. The offset helps with visibility and reaction time, but only up to some design speed.
The sharrows are viable and I don’t see any conflicts with MUTCD or CVC either.
-Andreas
Is there a way to fix Walnut so that it works for all cyclists? Without changing the new sidepath, I can think of two (cheap paint) fixes:
* Add sharrows to the #2 lane * Convert the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane
Which fix would we prefer?
Ken et al., For the many reasons alluded to by others in this thread, I never ride on Walnut, and will never ride on Walnut, even though I live at the corner of Walnut and Civic Center Drive. There are plenty of other alternatives to getting wherever
I need to go. Nick Sent from
Mail for Windows
My solution is the best yet! I now completely avoid riding on Walnut. Mission accomplished…
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote:
Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes
everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric,
this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise
I do not see the purpose.
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with
motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's
crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if
you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via
groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that
apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns.
�It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight
While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill
and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon
<vbacon@...> wrote:
You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes
go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had
to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright
green. � Vinnie Bacon e:
vbacon@... p:
510-796-8870 �
�
Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the
green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the
cars coming around the corner.�
<46BDBFF14B02483DA89720EB924B651C.png>
|
|
|
Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
We already have a full-width trail on both sides of Walnut. But it’s split into a bike half and a ped half. It was a noble idea, but it doesn’t work as well as one wide path. (I’m guessing the existing trees were a constraint in some sections.)
Meanwhile, we still need a cheap/easy solution for restoring “avid” cycling to Walnut. I saw a vote against sharrows, so it sounds like converting the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane would be preferred.
How do people feel about the green plastic bollards? Is that usable for faster cycling, or is that too constraining?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:07 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress.
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.
Respectfully, Daniel
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell < vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont
made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to
take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to
remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of
this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards
Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars
coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking
for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I
have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and
front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a
car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where
they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a
car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there
is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the
light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the
sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again
when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go
straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are
seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to
safely go straight
While I am venting, those
islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also
an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones
travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain
broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium
on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback
are examined
Andy Sass
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie
Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:
You
should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW.
Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not
perfect. I was just commenting last night that I
don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on
Walnut.
�
Another
big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for
bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial
design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and
the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration
at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those
right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of
vehicles, not even realizing they are not for
vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they
paint them bright green.
�
Vinnie
Bacon
e: vbacon@...
p:
510-796-8870
�
�
Please be careful
when crossing Walnut after going up the green
bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions
now I have almost seen bike riders get hit
when they have the green light and they
advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide
corner.� I don't really blame the cars,
because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner
juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody
getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the
cars coming around the corner.�
|
|
|
Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
A class II bike lane would negate the speed-reduction benefit of the wide corners at the intersections. Turning cars crossing the bike lane effectively have a vastly increased turning radius, allowing higher speed turns. The current offset bike path really only works when turning cars are slow enough that both drivers and cyclists can react to avoid a collision. The offset helps with visibility and reaction time, but only up to some design speed.
The sharrows are viable and I don’t see any conflicts with MUTCD or CVC either.
-Andreas
Is there a way to fix Walnut so that it works for all cyclists? Without changing the new sidepath, I can think of two (cheap paint) fixes:
* Add sharrows to the #2 lane * Convert the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane
Which fix would we prefer?
Ken et al., For the many reasons alluded to by others in this thread, I never ride on Walnut, and will never ride on Walnut, even though I live at the corner of Walnut and Civic Center Drive. There are plenty of other alternatives to getting wherever
I need to go. Nick Sent from
Mail for Windows
My solution is the best yet! I now completely avoid riding on Walnut. Mission accomplished…
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote:
Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes
everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric,
this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise
I do not see the purpose.
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with
motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's
crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if
you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via
groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that
apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns.
�It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight
While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill
and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon
<vbacon@...> wrote:
You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes
go up on the sidewalk on Walnut. � Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had
to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright
green. � Vinnie Bacon e:
vbacon@... p:
510-796-8870 �
�
Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the
green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the
cars coming around the corner.�
|
|
|
Re: Wide Corners at Walnut
Michael, you are totally right that just making a bunch of rules will not be effective in separating bikes and pedestrians. However, I think the only reason the Alameda Creek Trail works where it does is because there are no intersections with roads. An Alameda Creek–width trail on both sides of Walnut would be great, but likely unfeasible. If people are complaining about these new intersections now, just wait until there is a full-width trail that has on- and off-ramps at every intersection. At that point it would just be easier to close Walnut to cars altogether... but I digress.
Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.
Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.
Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.
In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.
Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch < daniel@...> wrote: Michael, you make great points.
My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School.
My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding.
I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.
I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind).
What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.
Respectfully, Daniel
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.
Faster than that, we should use the roadway.
Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell < vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont
made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to
take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to
remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of
this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards
Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars
coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking
for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.
Greg Vicksell
On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I
have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and
front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a
car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where
they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a
car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there
is no pullout for the bus stop.
The problem is worst when the
light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the
sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again
when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go
straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are
seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to
safely go straight
While I am venting, those
islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also
an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones
travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain
broken bones, or worse.
There should be a moratorium
on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback
are examined
Andy Sass
On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie
Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:
You
should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW.
Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not
perfect. I was just commenting last night that I
don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on
Walnut.
�
Another
big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for
bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial
design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and
the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration
at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those
right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of
vehicles, not even realizing they are not for
vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they
paint them bright green.
�
Vinnie
Bacon
e: vbacon@...
p:
510-796-8870
�
�
Please be careful
when crossing Walnut after going up the green
bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions
now I have almost seen bike riders get hit
when they have the green light and they
advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide
corner.� I don't really blame the cars,
because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner
juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody
getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the
cars coming around the corner.�
|
|
|
