Date   

Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Michael Graff
 

Is there a way to fix Walnut so that it works for all cyclists? Without changing the new sidepath, I can think of two (cheap paint) fixes:

* Add sharrows to the #2 lane
* Convert the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane

Which fix would we prefer?

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 2:29 PM Nick Laszlo <laszlonick@...> wrote:

Ken et al.,

 

For the many reasons alluded to by others in this thread, I never ride on Walnut, and will never ride on Walnut, even though I live at the corner of Walnut and Civic Center Drive.  There are plenty of other alternatives to getting wherever I need to go.

 

Nick

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Ken Goldman
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 2:03 PM
To: Michael Graff
Cc: Daniel Karpelevitch; Andrew Sass; FFBC IO List; Greg Vicksell; Tim OHara; Vinnie Bacon; hlarsen@...
Subject: Re: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

 

My solution is the best yet! I now completely avoid riding on Walnut. Mission accomplished…

Ken

 



On Aug 12, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:



Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.

 

Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.

 

Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.

 

In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.

 

Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches.

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote:

Michael, you make great points. 

 

My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. 

 

My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. 

 

I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.

 

I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). 

 

What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.

 

Respectfully,

Daniel

 

 

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 11:45 Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:

The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.

 

Faster than that, we should use the roadway.

 

Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:

I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:

Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

 

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

 

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

 

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

 

Andy Sass

 

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:

 

 

You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim

 

 


Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Nick Laszlo
 

Ken et al.,

 

For the many reasons alluded to by others in this thread, I never ride on Walnut, and will never ride on Walnut, even though I live at the corner of Walnut and Civic Center Drive.  There are plenty of other alternatives to getting wherever I need to go.

 

Nick

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Ken Goldman
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 2:03 PM
To: Michael Graff
Cc: Daniel Karpelevitch; Andrew Sass; FFBC IO List; Greg Vicksell; Tim OHara; Vinnie Bacon; hlarsen@...
Subject: Re: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

 

My solution is the best yet! I now completely avoid riding on Walnut. Mission accomplished…

Ken

 



On Aug 12, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:



Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.

 

Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.

 

Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.

 

In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.

 

Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches.

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote:

Michael, you make great points. 

 

My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. 

 

My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. 

 

I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.

 

I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). 

 

What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.

 

Respectfully,

Daniel

 

 

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 11:45 Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:

The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.

 

Faster than that, we should use the roadway.

 

Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:

I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:

Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

 

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

 

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

 

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

 

Andy Sass

 

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:

 

 

You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim

 

 


Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Daniel Karpelevitch
 

Ken, presumably you take Stevenson or Mowry instead. My point is that there are people that wouldn't take those alternate routes. Not only would they prefer the Walnut bike path, they would not, or be much less likely to, ride elsewhere. 

Personally, I'm in the same boat as you. I'll ride on Niles Canyon Rd, Valecitos Rd, and other objectively unsafe roads without a second thought (not something even all of the club riders can say). But I recognize that I and riders like me are not the majority. Civil/traffic engineers should not be prioritizing our needs. They should focus on making cycling safe, accessible, and equitable for everyone. I believe the new changes are positive steps in that direction.

Daniel

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 14:03 Ken Goldman <ken.goldman@...> wrote:
My solution is the best yet! I now completely avoid riding on Walnut. Mission accomplished…

Ken


On Aug 12, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:


Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.

Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.

Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.

In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.

Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote:
Michael, you make great points. 

My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. 

My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. 

I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.

I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). 

What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.

Respectfully,
Daniel



On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 11:45 Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.

Faster than that, we should use the roadway.

Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

Andy Sass

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:


You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim



Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Ken Goldman
 

My solution is the best yet! I now completely avoid riding on Walnut. Mission accomplished…

Ken


On Aug 12, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:


Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.

Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.

Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.

In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.

Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote:
Michael, you make great points. 

My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. 

My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. 

I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.

I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). 

What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.

Respectfully,
Daniel



On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 11:45 Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.

Faster than that, we should use the roadway.

Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

Andy Sass

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:


You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim



Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Michael Graff
 

Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.

Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.

Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.

In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.

Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote:
Michael, you make great points. 

My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. 

My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. 

I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.

I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). 

What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.

Respectfully,
Daniel



On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 11:45 Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.

Faster than that, we should use the roadway.

Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

Andy Sass

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:


You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim



Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Vinnie Bacon
 

Good points. Of course, it’s dangerous for cars to cruise through those right-turn lanes at 15-20 MPH. We could cause our own problems flying through the new lanes at 10-15 MPH.

 

And yes, I will use the vehicle lane on Walnut, especially since there is another lane for cars there. Why they didn’t drop down to one lane there I don’t know. Traffic volumes at the intersection?

 

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

 

From: Michael Graff <michael.graff@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 11:42 AM
To: Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...>
Cc: Andrew Sass <andrew.sass@...>; Tim OHara <timorides2@...>; info@ffbc.groups.io; Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...>; hlarsen@...
Subject: Re: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

 

The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.

 

Faster than that, we should use the roadway.

 

Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:

I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:

Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

 

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

 

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

 

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

 

Andy Sass

 

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:

 

 

You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim

 


Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Daniel Karpelevitch
 

Michael, you make great points. 

My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. 

My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. 

I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.

I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). 

What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.

Respectfully,
Daniel



On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 11:45 Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:
The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.

Faster than that, we should use the roadway.

Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

Andy Sass

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:


You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim



Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Michael Graff
 

The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.

Faster than that, we should use the roadway.

Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:
I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

Andy Sass

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:


You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim



Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Greg Vicksell
 

I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:
Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

Andy Sass

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:


You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim



Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Andrew Sass <andrew.sass@...>
 

Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers).  I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with.  The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns.  It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo.  At least they are seen.  It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen.  Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

Andy Sass

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:


You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont’s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he’s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don’t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

 

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

 

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

 

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

 

All,

 

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.  On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around the wide corner.  I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the corner juts out so far.  I just don't want anybody getting hurt.  So be careful and watch for the cars coming around the corner. 

 

Tim


Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Vinnie Bacon
 

You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont’s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he’s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don’t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

 

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

 

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

 

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

 

All,

 

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.  On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around the wide corner.  I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the corner juts out so far.  I just don't want anybody getting hurt.  So be careful and watch for the cars coming around the corner. 

 

Tim


Re: Wide Corners at Walnut

Seper D <ssd1354@...>
 

Yeah someone here before claimed walnut ave project was result of extensive research. I hope she reads your email.


On Aug 12, 2021, at 9:32 AM, Tim OHara <timorides2@...> wrote:


All,

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.  On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around the wide corner.  I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the corner juts out so far.  I just don't want anybody getting hurt.  So be careful and watch for the cars coming around the corner. 

Tim


Wide Corners at Walnut

Tim OHara
 

All,

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.  On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around the wide corner.  I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the corner juts out so far.  I just don't want anybody getting hurt.  So be careful and watch for the cars coming around the corner. 

Tim


Tour de Fuzz

Lori Sommer
 

Hello,
I sent an email to everyone that I remembered from FFBC that signed up to participate in the Fuzz.  Please let me know If I forgot to include you.
Lori


Re: TMCR - Route

Lori Sommer
 

Good Afternoon,

Someone was unable to access the ridewithgps route so I recreated the link (it looks exactly the same) and updated the calendar.  It has been verified by two.  Sorry!

This is the corrected link:
Lori


On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 10:55 AM Lori Sommer <lorimsommer@...> wrote:
Good Morning,

Thanks to Ken for leading the TMCR for the last two weeks while I was on vacation.  Tomorrow we will do the Olive Hill Loop Backward.  The route is 30.5miles with under 1, 000' of climbing but there is an easy way to cut the miles by 11.5 and skip the climbing.  Please print your route sheet and join me tomorrow!  The weather and the company will be very nice.

Lori Sommer


Thursday, 12 August
08:30
 Thursday Morning Coffee Ride across the Dumbarton
WhenThu, 12 August, 08:30 – 13:00
WhereParking lot at the base of the Dumbarton Bridge (at the end of Marshlands Rd) (map)
DescriptionLength: 30.5 miles; Elevation: 1000'
Terrain: 2,3 Pace: T,M


This is the specific route: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28761919
We will do the Olive Hill Loop Backward tomorrow from the base of the Dumbarton with coffee at Starbucks in Menlo Park. Although the route has us crossing HWY84 at University, we will probably decide to go under the bridge and get on the path around Facebook via HWY 84. There is an option to turn left on Alameda to cut out 11.5miles and all the climbing.  



Meet at the parking lot at the base of the Dumbarton Bridge (at the end of Marshlands Road) and we will head across the bridge to various destinations. 

Although we will be riding across the bay, the specific route for this second Thursday of the month repeating ride will be posted here (with an attachment for you to print) as well as to the FFBC email groups (https://ffbc.groups.io/g/info/topics ) once it is selected.  This is usually done a day or maybe two days before the ride.  Sometimes we ride without route sheets so we regroup as necessary and no one is left behind. 

For a flat ride we head through East Palo Alto and along a few paths to Shoreline Park for lunch or along the creek with a bit of shade. For a ride with climbing, we do Woodside Road, Sand Hill/Whisky Hill, Alpine Loop, Arastradero or Edgewood Road. Sometimes the climbing is optional. We always stop for coffee ($) and riders are welcome to head back on their own. 

Extreme temperatures, park closure, construction, rain, poor air quality or the whim of the ride leader may modify or cancel the route. Check here for updates: info@ffbc.groups.io

Lori Sommer lorimsommer@... 510-693-8624

Riders must follow California and County mask and distancing guidelines (https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/guidance-for-face-coverings.aspx).  Ride leaders are not responsible for enforcing these guidelines.  It is incumbent on riders to follow these guidelines to keep our cycling community safe.



TMCR - Route

Lori Sommer
 

Good Morning,

Thanks to Ken for leading the TMCR for the last two weeks while I was on vacation.  Tomorrow we will do the Olive Hill Loop Backward.  The route is 30.5miles with under 1, 000' of climbing but there is an easy way to cut the miles by 11.5 and skip the climbing.  Please print your route sheet and join me tomorrow!  The weather and the company will be very nice.

Lori Sommer


Thursday, 12 August
08:30
 Thursday Morning Coffee Ride across the Dumbarton
WhenThu, 12 August, 08:30 – 13:00
WhereParking lot at the base of the Dumbarton Bridge (at the end of Marshlands Rd) (map)
DescriptionLength: 30.5 miles; Elevation: 1000'
Terrain: 2,3 Pace: T,M


This is the specific route: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28761919
We will do the Olive Hill Loop Backward tomorrow from the base of the Dumbarton with coffee at Starbucks in Menlo Park. Although the route has us crossing HWY84 at University, we will probably decide to go under the bridge and get on the path around Facebook via HWY 84. There is an option to turn left on Alameda to cut out 11.5miles and all the climbing.  



Meet at the parking lot at the base of the Dumbarton Bridge (at the end of Marshlands Road) and we will head across the bridge to various destinations. 

Although we will be riding across the bay, the specific route for this second Thursday of the month repeating ride will be posted here (with an attachment for you to print) as well as to the FFBC email groups (https://ffbc.groups.io/g/info/topics ) once it is selected.  This is usually done a day or maybe two days before the ride.  Sometimes we ride without route sheets so we regroup as necessary and no one is left behind. 

For a flat ride we head through East Palo Alto and along a few paths to Shoreline Park for lunch or along the creek with a bit of shade. For a ride with climbing, we do Woodside Road, Sand Hill/Whisky Hill, Alpine Loop, Arastradero or Edgewood Road. Sometimes the climbing is optional. We always stop for coffee ($) and riders are welcome to head back on their own. 

Extreme temperatures, park closure, construction, rain, poor air quality or the whim of the ride leader may modify or cancel the route. Check here for updates: info@ffbc.groups.io

Lori Sommer lorimsommer@... 510-693-8624

Riders must follow California and County mask and distancing guidelines (https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/guidance-for-face-coverings.aspx).  Ride leaders are not responsible for enforcing these guidelines.  It is incumbent on riders to follow these guidelines to keep our cycling community safe.



Re: Castro Ranch Road now OPEN to bicycles

Donna Luporini Kaplan
 

Hello!

This is to let you all know that Castro Ranch Road between Olinda Road and the Carriage Hills South subdivision has been repaved and is now open to cyclists, thus it is now safe to ride the Three Bears in any direction.

 

Donna Kaplan

 

 

From: Donna Kaplan <luporini@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 6:34 AM
To: 'info@ffbc.groups.io' <info@ffbc.groups.io>
Subject: Castro Ranch Road closed to bicycles until mid-July

 

To: cyclists who have been thinking about riding “The Three Bears”

 

There is a 1.5 mile stretch of Castro Ranch Road, between Olinda Rd (one block east of San Pablo Dam Road) and just beyond the Carriage Hills South subdivision, that will be closed to cyclists until July 18, 2021.  Until mid-July, cyclists who really want to ride the Three Bears can only access Bear Creek Road from Camino Pablo (Orinda) or from the eastern direction (Martinez).

 

I sent notice about this stretch of road—stating that it was very hazardous to cyclists and an accident waiting to happen—to Bike East Bay last October and did not receive a reply. I tried again in mid-March and heard back right away with apologies. Dave Campbell, Advocacy Director at Bike East Bay, subsequently reached out to various agencies, and it took just two days for us to hear back from the City of Richmond Infrastructure Administrator, saying that repaving this stretch of road had been planned but held up because it was such a big job. Of course I know that I (and Dave Campbell) didn’t make this happen, but I like to think that perhaps we pushed it up on the calendar.

 

I will miss riding the Bears, but I am very happy about this outcome.

 

Donna Kaplan

 


Monday Morning Recovery Ride (MMRR) - August 9th

Steven Muramoto
 

I will be the ride leader for the this coming MMRR (August 9th).  We will be biking to Starbucks at McCarthy Ranch (route is here...https://ridewithgps.com/routes/36016054; please print out a cue sheet if you need one).    
As a reminder:
--Sign-ups will be done at Isherwood staging area (sign up @ 8:30 am, roll time @ 8:45 am), Chevron @ Stevenson/Paseo Padre, and Grimmer/Paseo Padre
--If you will be joining the ride at Chevron or Grimmer, please arrive early enough to meet the group (we are no longer waiting a specified amount of time for arrivals)
--For the regroup at Chevron, we will continue down the road to Baylis Street for those needing to use the restrooms at Lake Elizabeth

If you have any questions, please let me know.  Hoping to see you Monday morning!  


~Steven Muramoto


Alameda Creek Trail Construction - Caution Advised

Gary Schaps <gschaps@...>
 

Last Monday, August 2nd, I rode the Alameda Creek Trail from Coyote Hills to Mission Blvd.  There is a construction detour that routes riders to the gravel trail on the north side. Where that detour crosses under I-880, the trail becomes steep sand.  And where it emerges on the east side, it's steep, deep stones - not gravel.  Caution is advised.


Alameda Creek Trail Construction Detour

Gary Schaps <gschaps@...>
 

Last Monday, August 2nd, I rode the Alameda Creek Trail from Coyote Hills to Mission Blvd.  There is a construction detour that reroutes riders from the south side of the creek to the north side, gravel trail. On the west side, where the detour crosses under 880, the trail becomes steep sand.  And where it emerges on the east side, it's steep, deep stones - not gravel.  Caution is advised.  

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