Re: Wide Corners at Walnut


Shantanu Sen
 

Like many others I do not ride on Walnut any more, I tried a couple of times but gave up after having to stop and disembark multiple times for people walking in the wrong direction with headphones on. And I am in the T->M range and hence slower than many of the folks here.

The other day I read that there is a million dollar project on the table to change the intersection of Driscoll/Osgood and Washington in the same model as Walnut to make it easier for bikers and pedestrian before the new Bart station opens.

What kind of research/data is used to design these kind of roads I wonder - especially when it is given that walkers can never be educated to avoid those raised bike lanes.

Shantanu Sen

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 11:10:09 PM PDT, Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:


The bike lane could be come a right-turn-only (except bikes) lane at the intersections. That solves the radius problem.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 10:56 PM Andreas Kadavanich <andreas@...> wrote:
A class II bike lane would negate the speed-reduction benefit of the wide corners at the intersections. Turning cars crossing the bike lane effectively have a vastly increased turning radius, allowing higher speed turns. The current offset bike path really only works when turning cars are slow enough that both drivers and cyclists can react to avoid a collision. The offset helps with visibility and reaction time, but only up to some design speed.

The sharrows are viable and I don’t see any conflicts with MUTCD or CVC either.


-Andreas



On Aug 12, 2021, at 14:36, Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:

Is there a way to fix Walnut so that it works for all cyclists? Without changing the new sidepath, I can think of two (cheap paint) fixes:

* Add sharrows to the #2 lane
* Convert the #2 lane into a traditional Class II bike lane

Which fix would we prefer?

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 2:29 PM Nick Laszlo <laszlonick@...> wrote:

Ken et al.,

 

For the many reasons alluded to by others in this thread, I never ride on Walnut, and will never ride on Walnut, even though I live at the corner of Walnut and Civic Center Drive.  There are plenty of other alternatives to getting wherever I need to go.

 

Nick

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Ken Goldman
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 2:03 PM
To: Michael Graff
Cc: Daniel Karpelevitch; Andrew Sass; FFBC IO List; Greg Vicksell; Tim OHara; Vinnie Bacon; hlarsen@...
Subject: Re: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

 

My solution is the best yet! I now completely avoid riding on Walnut. Mission accomplished…

Ken

 



On Aug 12, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:



Your sister sounds like the ideal customer for the new bikeways.

 

Rather than treating bike-ped mixing as a problem on the side paths, we should expect it and design for it. Adding more rules, and attempting to separate bikes and peds, is futile. Especially at the intersections.

 

Instead of two narrow adjacent crosswalks, make one big one. Instead of a narrow sidewalk + narrow side path, make one wide one. Instead of hoping for one-way bike traffic, assume two-way traffic.

 

In other words, make Walnut work more like the Alameda Creek Trail. One wide space (on each side of the road) that everybody negotiates with each other.

 

Oh, and can some of the trees be trimmed? I keep having to duck under the low hanging branches.

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 12:08 PM Daniel Karpelevitch <daniel@...> wrote:

Michael, you make great points. 

 

My 13-year-old sister just started riding bikes and will be riding to high school in a few weeks. Our route is from Mission/Walnut all the way down Walnut to Fremont Blvd, then north on Fremont to Washington High School. 

 

My sister averages around 8-10 mph. She absolutely does not feel safe riding on unprotected bike lanes. The only reason she will be riding to school this year is because of the new bike path on Walnut and the bollard-protected bike lanes everywhere else she is riding. 

 

I know the club riders are much faster on average, but I think it is important to realize that that bike path and the new intersections weren't built for the "avid cyclist." If we want cycling to grow and make Fremont less car-centric, this is a sacrifice we must be willing to make. There are still plenty of alternate routes that do not have any of these new designs.

 

I agree that pedestrians on the bike path and in the intersections are a problem. I think more signage making clear where each should go would help, as well as some sort of separators (the small white flexible bollards come to mind). 

 

What does confuse me is the new intersections design popping up without the accompanying bike paths around them, such as at Fremont/Stevenson and Fremont/Mowry. Hopefully the surrounding infrastructure will be built shortly after, otherwise I do not see the purpose.

 

Respectfully,

Daniel

 

 

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 11:45 Michael Graff <michael.graff@...> wrote:

The new side paths and intersections are designed for slower cycling, 10-12 mph max. If I rIde them at that speed, I can generally avoid right-hook and drive-out collisions with motorists, and conflicts with pedestrians.

 

Faster than that, we should use the roadway.

 

Another thing I've noticed on Walnut, and at the fancy new intersections, is that bikes and peds don't strictly follow the lines painted for them. Bikes and peds use each other's crosswalks, and travel in both directions on both the sidewalk and side path. If we're going to build more of these, we might as well accept that and make them Class I multi-use paths. The attempts at bike-ped separation don't work.

 

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Greg Vicksell <vicksell@...> wrote:

I was really surprised when Fremont made these changes. As already stated, you are not required to take the path up onto the islands. You still have the right to remain on the road like the motor vehicles. The other aspect of this is if you come down the path on Walnut from Mission towards Fremont you are going to be crossing a lot of driveways and cars coming out of the parking lots probably aren't going to be looking for you. I find it safer to stay on the road.

Greg Vicksell

On 8/12/2021 11:06 AM, Andrew Sass via groups.io wrote:

Three more near misses that I have seen (one being me, even with a bright rear light and front light with side flashers). �I have also seen one with a car leaving that apartment complex and pulling up to where they can see oncoming traffic and almost hitting a bike, and a car/bus near miss as the bus just stops in the street as there is no pullout for the bus stop.

 

The problem is worst when the light is green to begin with. �The cyclist pulls up onto the sidewalk and the car does not expect them to pop out again when the car turns. �It is safer for cyclists just to go straight and take the lane when on Paseo. �At least they are seen. �It would be much better if the curb was back 4 feet to safely go straight

 

While I am venting, those islands that are in the bike lane on Washington Blvd are also an accident waiting to happen. �Cyclists, even novice ones travel fast on the downhill and hitting those are certain broken bones, or worse.

 

There should be a moratorium on any more street changes until some statistics and feedback are examined

 

Andy Sass

 

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 09:54:49 AM PDT, Vinnie Bacon <vbacon@...> wrote:

 

 

You should send this to Hans Larsen at Fremont�s DPW. Hans is very good with bike issues but he�s not perfect. I was just commenting last night that I don�t like how bikes go up on the sidewalk on Walnut.

�

Another big issue is the nice wide right turn lanes for bikes look like they could be for cars. The initial design at Civic Center / BART Way was like that, and the City had to redo it. I saw the new configuration at Mowry / Fremont and my first thought was those right turn lanes would be too small for a lot of vehicles, not even realizing they are not for vehicles. Motorists will be confused too unless they paint them bright green.

�

Vinnie Bacon

e: vbacon@...

p: 510-796-8870

�

From: info@ffbc.groups.io <info@ffbc.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim OHara
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:32 AM
To: info@ffbc.groups.io
Subject: [public info] Wide Corners at Walnut

�

All,

�

Please be careful when crossing Walnut after going up the green bike path on the sidewalk.� On three occasions now I have almost seen bike riders get hit when they have the green light and they advance just as a car sweeps around�the wide corner.� I don't really blame the cars, because it is just sooo weird, that the�corner juts�out so far.� I just don't want anybody getting hurt.� So be careful and watch�for the cars coming around the corner.�

�

Tim

 

 

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